All this is part of the reason why I've strongly been thinking of going back to school to become a doctor. What follows is mostly a rant, just to be upfront about it.
It's a really radical transition, but I really, really dislike the city-centric focus of software engineering. I hate the idea of being a contractor (I just want stable, life-long work), and I can't tell you how tired I am of crippling traffic causing me not to even want to drop by the grocery store until it's almost time for it to close. I'm not in the Bay Area, but am in one of the five largest cities in the US. I went to college not giving a shit about money or how much of it I would make, and now I find myself thinking about it most days because I have to confront the fact that I can't afford any housing near where I work. I wouldn't be so upset about it if it weren't for the traffic which makes commuting from far out an absolute nightmare.
In terms of raw numbers, it's a transition that doesn't really make sense, not for a relatively skilled developer anyway. The salaries aren't that much higher outside of surgery and a few ultra-competitive specialties, and the time and debt involved in the training are immense. Depending on any number of factors, it could be better or worse than a life in technology. The two things that are for sure are that you're not going to have financial difficulties and you're not going to be subjected to ageism (quite the opposite). If you want to be rich, medicine's probably a pretty bad choice; but if you want stable, well-paid, life-long, rewarding employment wherever you want in the country, it's among the very best options.
The most amazing part of it is that you get to directly help people every day (so you don't have to wonder if your crazy ass startup is actually "changing the world" or not), there's more demand for doctors in rural areas (not less), and most non-surgical specialties can easily work comfortably into their mid-60s (or even later, health permitting). You're also surrounded by people who, at least in the beginning, were motivated out of passion and not money- and status-seeking. (Of course, some people will change as they age and grow more successful, but not all.)
I'm married to a doctor and have considered medicine, but probably won't go for it.
On your individual points:
1) City-focus of software engineering. Have you considered trying to work remotely? That isn't for everyone (I couldn't do it), but it would probably solve your problem
2) Salary wise, I would worry too much unless your first priority is to really help people (more on that below). I've interacted with a lot of doctors and frankly if you are smart developer you'll most likely have a leg up intelligence wise on all but the most in demand specialities.
3) I wouldn't necessarily count on being able to directly help people every day. It depends on your speciality and where you work. A lot of private pratice places often push unnecessary procedures to make money. If you are in a non-procedure speciality or at an academic center you probably won't have those pressures. That being said, if you want a comfortable life where you can actually help people, a job at an academic center outside of a major city sounds like a great fit. I doubt you'd make much more than a software engineer though.
4) I'm not sure how to parse your statement about status-seeking. A lot of people who go into medicine are status seeking.
> I'm not sure how to parse your statement about status-seeking. A lot of people who go into medicine are status seeking.
My point, I suppose, is that spending an extra 7+ years in school/residency and taking out a ton of debt is not a very efficient way to get money and status unless you plan on being among those who get into a hyper-competitive residency.
I agree that working remotely would solve my problem, but I have serious concerns over (1) long-term stability; (2) being totally isolated from coworkers.
Uh - remote? I've spent most of my professional life working from home.
With some extra effort, you can earn an SV salary but live in an area that has a very un-SV cost of living.
Traffic isn't an issue either.
You can network remotely. You can build companies remotely. You can even find investors remotely.
A few people are doing this already. More and more will in future.
(Are we really supposed to believe it's always better to build Internet companies in meatspace? Hmmm.)
I know there are downsides to remote working. Guess what? There are epic, catastrophic downsides to working in SV meatspace too.
I'm looking forward to the day a few decades from now when what's left of SV gets turned into a museum, while the rest of the planet gets on with doing cool fun stuff... elsewhere.
Do you really think working remotely is anywhere nearly as stable as working as a doctor? I'm asking honestly. If I were convinced that it were, I'd consider that path. But most companies I've been involved with have clearly preferred developers to actively be part of the office (I guess I need to actively seek out the exceptions), and the areas I would like to live in aren't necessarily ones I'd want to find myself unemployed in (due to lack of technology companies -- I'd either have to find another remote job or uproot my whole life).
I'm also not confident at all on the longevity of most software companies. Part of me does not feel comfortable growing roots somewhere while working for a company that I don't expect to survive the course of even my own career, with very few other local options to fall back on.
Also, for what it's worth, I really do enjoy physically being around coworkers and interacting with people. The lack of interaction is one of the things that bothers me with software development. I think, if I worked remotely, I'd have to start a family just to keep myself feeling connected to the world.
Honest question: how does one get started working remotely? I understand that it's easy to keep finding remote work once you've already done a few remote gigs. But how do you break in?
Either you apply to a remote job - there are plenty here on the monthly "who's hiring" threads. Or you get your current company to allow it as part of negotiations. An annual review makes a good setting - ask for a big raise, then offer working from home as an alternative (it'll save me money on my commute, so I won't need the increase).
This sounds like a fairly idealized vision of what working in medicine is like. I have heard doctors say the same sort of thing about being a software developer. Is the grass really greener?
We all have different things that we're looking for in life. For instance, most of the things that I commonly hear people complain about in software development have never once bothered me (bureaucracy/incompetent managers, deadlines, long hours, etc.).
A doctor who isn't interested in any of the benefits of the career that I listed may indeed end up resenting their choice to take on a lot of debt (and study for at least seven additional years) just to end up in a big city alongside programmers with no debt making a similar amount of money.
Like I wrote, if you're motivated by money, medicine is a fairly bad choice. How many doctors are neurosurgeons? About half a percent. Of those, how many are department chairs? Just a handful.
If you want few working hours, medicine is probably a bad choice. How many doctors are radiologists who co-own a business and take half the year off? I don't have a percentage for this one, but very few. Most will work 50-60 hours a week.
How many programmers know that their startup is still going to be around in 40 years? Very few. How many programmers have the option of working where they want without taking a pay cut or working as a contractor? Very few.
The grass certainly isn't always greener. If it were, then I might have picked law, or architecture, or construction, or any of a vast number of other options. But none of those fits the list of criteria that I now know are important to me in life (but may not be important to you).
To add to your data point, I recently transitioned as a software dev for a e-commerce company to Bioinformatics research place.
The e-commerce recently IPO'd but I didn't like the culture and lifestyle for all the reasons you've already stated in your post.
Funny enough I also applied for a software position for a hospital but I didn't take it as I consulted many of my friends who are in residency and EMR software field where they said that hospitals are onerous with regulations. So coding can be frustrating experience and turn-arounds are slow with specialists/business analysts ensuring compliance with patient privacy and clinical data accuracy.
If you're looking for a place where there's a lot of smart people who are not motivated for money, there are many software opportunities in NGOs, life sciences research where lifestyle is much more relaxed, pays actually pretty well (because people won't accept the fake carrot of big equity payout) and you get more job satisfaction IMHO. Best of luck to you.
Cities are a great place to live if you find one with decent public transport. If you're already talking about a major life upheaval, have you considered coming to Europe? There are pretty cool software industries in London and Berlin at least.
YMMV, but I found living in the country pretty unpleasant, particularly as a relatively shy single person with less-mainstream hobbies; you have to drive everywhere, you have to plan a lot more in advance (just trivial things like doing your grocery shopping ahead of time), and there aren't the kind of entertainment options you get in a city.
If you can get in medical school and can take the income hit during your coursework and residency, go for it. Programming is best kept as a hobby (imho) unless you are building your own company. Get into a non ageist profession. Have fun. Good luck.
I don't think the cars are the problem, as much as the tech bubble driving real estate prices through the stratosphere. That's not going to be fixed by... more technology.
In other words, this may be the HNest comment I've ever seen.
It's a really radical transition, but I really, really dislike the city-centric focus of software engineering. I hate the idea of being a contractor (I just want stable, life-long work), and I can't tell you how tired I am of crippling traffic causing me not to even want to drop by the grocery store until it's almost time for it to close. I'm not in the Bay Area, but am in one of the five largest cities in the US. I went to college not giving a shit about money or how much of it I would make, and now I find myself thinking about it most days because I have to confront the fact that I can't afford any housing near where I work. I wouldn't be so upset about it if it weren't for the traffic which makes commuting from far out an absolute nightmare.
In terms of raw numbers, it's a transition that doesn't really make sense, not for a relatively skilled developer anyway. The salaries aren't that much higher outside of surgery and a few ultra-competitive specialties, and the time and debt involved in the training are immense. Depending on any number of factors, it could be better or worse than a life in technology. The two things that are for sure are that you're not going to have financial difficulties and you're not going to be subjected to ageism (quite the opposite). If you want to be rich, medicine's probably a pretty bad choice; but if you want stable, well-paid, life-long, rewarding employment wherever you want in the country, it's among the very best options.
The most amazing part of it is that you get to directly help people every day (so you don't have to wonder if your crazy ass startup is actually "changing the world" or not), there's more demand for doctors in rural areas (not less), and most non-surgical specialties can easily work comfortably into their mid-60s (or even later, health permitting). You're also surrounded by people who, at least in the beginning, were motivated out of passion and not money- and status-seeking. (Of course, some people will change as they age and grow more successful, but not all.)