And And additional 50 tons of fossil fuels to build the car. And still uses tons of fossile fuel when consuming electricity, because that's how we make it, and renewable aren't gonna replace it entierly, as you can't realistically go above 80% wind and solar (and even those 80% are a theoretical limit, and reaxhing it is a massive deal…).
The only green car is the car you dont drive (nor own).
A Polestar 2 has a co2e of 23 tons. 50 tons of fuel has a co2e of 50x(44/12) because co2 is heavier than c2, and x1.4 to account for refining and shipping. That's 256 tons or 10x as much, and we haven't included the embodied carbon incurred in the production of the car.
And the CO2 emissions for motive energy are also about an order of magnitude less. Nuclear, hydro wind and solar make up almost half the grid. Natgas turbines are twice as efficient as gasoline engines. EV's are 3x as efficient as gasoline cars.
> Nuclear, hydro wind and solar make up almost half the grid
But almost none of the marginal production, so everytime you get a new car, it runs almost entierely on fossile fuel…
Also, your 50t of fuel (that I tongue-in-cheek-ly reused) is complete BS: 6L per 100km, multiplied by 300 000km, times .75 (density of gasoline) you “only” get 13.5 tons.
What grid are you on? In the US, wind and solar comprise 80% of the marginal production in 2022 and almost 100% of the future planned marginal production
> 13.5 tons.
Sorry, the 50 ton calculation was for a truck that I did for a different debate.
> What grid are you on? In the US, wind and solar comprise 80% of the marginal production in 2022 and almost 100% of the future planned marginal production
I don't know where you got your figures from, but wind and solar can almost never be the marginal production means at all[1], given they have a marginal cost of almost zero…
[1] unless there some very strong anti-renewable regulation going on forcing the renewable to only supply power to the grid after a threshold, but I don't know who would want to build wind and solar in such a context…
Cars charge at night, so they help flatten the duck curve and use mostly base power. They're good complements to wind power, which is usually stronger at night.
> Marginal as in "new capacity added to the grid".
That's not what this word means though.
> Cars charge at night, so they help flatten the duck curve and use mostly base power
When the car is being used for daily commute, yes, but not when travelling (IIRC the majority of gas consumption is caused by long-distance travelling in my country).
> They're good complements to wind power, which is usually stronger at night
Do you have a source for that?Because me personal experience suggest the opposite actually.
The word you're looking for is "peak". Marginal capacity describes both the last piece added and the first piece removed. It can apply to both our usages, and since there's a better term for your usage...
> When the car is being used for daily commute, yes, but not when travelling (IIRC the majority of gas consumption is caused by long-distance travelling in my country).
Citation definitely needed, I strongly disbelieve this.
Even our 500 miles trip mostly use night energy -- charge overnight for the first 320 on cheap night electricity, add 200 halfway in between at expensive rates, and recharge to full at destination at cheap night rates.
> Do you have a source for that?Because me personal experience suggest the opposite actually.
Even where it's not true, the production delta between night and day is lower than the demand delta between night day, so wind provides a disproportionate share of power at night.
> Nuclear, hydro wind and solar make up almost half the grid
Also don't forget that fossil fuels are used to transport the fossil fuels to your fossil fuel-burning car. The "EVs are just as bad" crowd act like everyone pumps and refines their own fuel in their back yard.
And And additional 50 tons of fossil fuels to build the car. And still uses tons of fossile fuel when consuming electricity, because that's how we make it, and renewable aren't gonna replace it entierly, as you can't realistically go above 80% wind and solar (and even those 80% are a theoretical limit, and reaxhing it is a massive deal…).
The only green car is the car you dont drive (nor own).