And my biggest gripe is that the product you would get out of the aforementioned frameworks without any design would look.. ok, usable. But even if you just want a website that is not just a bunch of text (though even that require some css to make it readable smh) you have to get quite invested into CSS, or at least bring in a css lib that provides you with some basic design. Otherwise it will look like it is the remains of some website from ARPANET.
I've done pure markup + classless CSS a few times. It's nice, readable and really the way I think the web should look like. But then you realize you don't get paid for doing good things on the web. I couldn't handle this feeling and just quit front-end work entirely except for pages I own.
