The email landed in the spam folder. A bounced email means it didn't find the inbox. If it didn't find an inbox there would be no log for him to check. Technical knowledge of emails and what the terms mean out him instantly as a liar. The fact this is still up on the front page is an embarrassment for the tech community in my opinion.
Are you going to apologize for being confidently wrong? Or confess your own incompetence and embarrassment?
> Update 1: Google Workspace Email Log
> Some commenters questioned whether I could reliably determine why Google rejected the email. Here's the screenshot from Google Workspace's admin email log search, showing the exact bounce reason . . .
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this wasn't in the original version rather than that you didn't actually read TFA, but it says straight up that it didn't make it to spam.
> Google's mail servers reject the message outright. It doesn't even get a chance to land in spam.
> Viva.com, one of Europe's largest payment processors, sends verification emails without a Message-ID header — a basic requirement of RFC 5322 since 2008. Google Workspace rejects them outright. Their support team's response to my detailed bug report: "your account has a verified email, so there's no problem."
Their emails do arrive tho? It was your email that didn't arrive? I find it unbelievable that a payment provider ignored customer complaining about no emails being delivered since it would breach their SLAs with their customers and their customers' customers would have complained. Especially since at the top you say Google says you got the verified email.
Dude, you may be liable for damages on this. This is an extremely serious allegation to be making in my opinion. I would delete this asap.
Edit: I think Ycombinator needs to realise they're liable for spreading this too. Holy crap, it's bad. They're lying through their teeth saying an email bounced but ended up in their logs. That's not now emails bounce is it? They bounce because it wasn't found. How was he able to verify his email if he didn't get the code?
If Gmail rejects emails from your domain it is up to you to fix it. Google is not going to change, and enough of your users will be interacting with people on Gmail that you have to fix it. It doesn't help that Google has been pushing people away from running their own email and into Google's services by ever tightening what it accepts over the years. More than one person has given up on their email server because it was a constant battle with Google, Microsoft, and company to not have important emails disappear into the void.
My takeaway is there is no bug. My takeaway is that his test email bounced because he didn't have the reputation Viva does. Emails are handled on a reputation basis, this is why we use email service providers like Sendgrid, Mailgun, Postmark, etc.
It always amazes me how people can read a blog post like this one that has a clear description of the problem with a log excerpts demonstrating the problem, and then people will confidently make up a completely different scenario that was not mentioned at all and blame the problem on that.
It amazes me people read that in this community and don't know for an email to bounce it means it didn't find an inbox. If it didn't find an inbox how did he check the logs?
WTF you talking about? Rene, this is defamation and I'm probably going to take action because honestly, enough is enough. I'm fed up of folk like you who lack basic technical knowledge or any knowledge making up bullshit. Your hourly rate makes me like you have money to take.
A log that clearly was from them and not the service provider. It amazes me you think you're so smart but haven't realised he doesn't have access to the logs you think he is showing.
Comments like this are why he's just landed himself with a major liability and I bet he'll be getting sued over this.
TFA shows an excerpt from the email log for his google workspace account, showing the bounce of email sent from viva.com.
Then, TFA states that he switched "the account" (his viva.com account) from using his GWorkspace address to a personal @gmail.com address, and asked viva to send another verification email. That one arrived.
At no point does TFA describe the author themselves sending a test email.
I think that's a misunderstanding of the tale. Viva sent a "click here to verify your email" to OP. That email never arrived because Google rejected it for missing a header. OP tried to tell viva, but they don't wanna hear it because OP worked around it.
Yeah. I think email receiving is a game of exceptions… the email receivers (In the business world it’s essentially just MSFT and GOOG of course) answer to the addressees because they are the customer, and those customers will start to shriek if their inbox doesn’t receive “Important Messages.” But GOOG or MS have no leverage over the senders in this case so they just add an exception: “if IP range is just right and message fault ___ is present, fix message” (or otherwise allow)
Of course, they do have leverage over “marketing email” senders since they can block it and no one will complain, so those senders always have impeccable compliance with every year’s new “anti-spam standard.”
Apple is another major player in the email receiving game for consumers. And they are awful, by far the worst of all the big providers. They do not send dmarc reports and they make it very difficult to tell why they accept some email and not others.
If you read two paragraphs further than the Tl;Dr:
> To unblock myself, I switched to a personal @gmail.com address for the account. Gmail's own receiving infrastructure is apparently more lenient with messages, or perhaps routes them differently. The verification email came through.
It does seem unlikely that there are no customers on google workspace who have tried to use viva. I don't do payment processing, and my email is via zoho, so I've no idea how large either of those groups are.
I suspect that Google going out of their way to make this required had a very reasonable and thought-out process, while the sender's omission was on oversight, so I haven't contacted Google Workspace support.
What's truly iffy is that GMail doesn't have the same strict requirements, and there's no way (at least that I found) to turn it off for my Google Workspace domain.
So, I've got to use my old account. I just found out via sources that he verified this account with the code from his main email. It was in his spam which is how he was able to see that the email headers weren't what he wanted. Which is why there was a log for a "bounced" email. I can't believe people don't realise bouncing means the mail server couldn't find an inbox.
And I think Viva is going to be pissed that I'm being stopped from pointing out the absolute lie here.
Lovingly yours that_guy_iain.
Dang, honestly, this is going to blow back big time because someone has clearly decided to stop me from editing my comments which means you're liable for damages and in breach of EU laws. YC is big enough and has enough interests in the EU to qualify. And it's the fact you've removed my ability to redress if your lawyers want to deal with it. And I'm pretty sure someone at YC is going to know how much money I'm going to get and who I'm getting it from which is the most impressive thing. And what my tagline is in certain circles.
You don't have the right to complain to random websites without punishment. And nobody punished you. And "ability to redress" is something you still have. And there are no damages.
> It's a if you know you, you know.
You brought it up. Though it's pretty obvious you're a liar.
> You don't have the right to complain to random websites without punishment. And nobody punished you. And "ability to redress" is something you still have. And there are no damages.
Well, you see Dang aka Daniel edited the settings on my account to stop me replying, or that's what I've heard, and pointing out the absolute lie that the blog post is. And that did hamper my ability to redress and people have been lying about me so there are damages. But even if it's just rate limiting that hampers my ability especially since it's been optimised heavily for high traffic so there is no technical reason for it since it's a file-based datastore.
> You brought it up. Though it's pretty obvious you're a liar.
I said someone there should know. I didn't say everyone should know. I clearly made it quite clear it was insider knowledge. This is what is known as a flex. I want to tell you my tagline because it's awesome but you can just call me a keyboard warrior.
I thought the problem was inability to edit, now it's inability to reply? Also you're wrong about the post and you don't know what damages are and your flex failed real bad. Good luck in life.
And nobody ever has to let you post on their private website. Right to redress is unrelated. If you take away anything from this conversation, please let it be that.
> Formal verification is a hardcore approach. It is difficult and it is the holy grail of software engineering.
My first question is, what is formal verification? Since I am a hardcore nerd, I'm confused since this blog post basically says tests aren't good enough.
It does? Do you know git is a dvcs? And therefore you're able to continue working without an internet connection or a service provider being up? It delays the code review process but doesn't break it.
I get it that you want it to be 100% up, but let's be serious your FLOSS projects probably break more stuff than GitHub being down does.
Not sure how having downtime is an anti-competition issue. I'm also not sure how you think you can take things away from people? Do you think someone just gave them GitHub and then take it away? Who are you expecting to take it away? Also, does your system have 100% uptime?
Companies used to be forced to sell parts of their business when antitrust was involved. The issue isn't the downtime, they should never have been allowed to own this in the first place.
There was just a recent case with Google to decide if they would have to sell Chrome. Of course the Judge ruled no. Nowadays you can have a monopoly in 20 adjacent industries and the courts will say it's fine.
You've been banging on about this for a while, I think this is my third time responding to one of your accounts. There is no antitrust issue, how are they messing with other competitors? You never back up your reasoning. How many accounts do you have active since I bet all the downvotes are from you?
I've had two accounts. I changed because I don't like the history (maybe one other person has the same opinion I did?). Anyways it's pretty obvious why this is an issue. Microsoft has a historical issue with being brutal to competition. There is no oversight as to what they do with the private data on GitHub. It's absolutely an antitrust issue. Do you need more reasoning?
Didn't you just privately tell me it was 4 accounts? Maybe that was someone else hating on Windows 95. But you need an active reason not what they did 20 years ago.
What someone saying to me privately via other channels that it was them when I asked them. It was some dude at Google so maybe complain to Google but I don't think this site has rules about what you do off the site. I don't think you understand rules and laws and stuff to be fair. And I'm pretty sure it was you because it's weird if someone was pretending to be you.
This is well cool, I swear to god a couple of kickass devs told me about this idea to get me to build it to build something cool. It's even cooler, since I kinda went in another direction and I'm going to build a container.d like system with an compatible API to run natively on Windows and Mac. I'm going to call it container.x but maybe something else.
This is actually an really interesting way to attack a sensitive network. This is a way of allowing to map the internal network of a sensitive network. Getting access is obviously the main challenge but once you're in there you need to know where you go and what to look for. If you've already got that knowledge when planning the attack to gain entry then you've got the upper-hand. So while it kinda seems like "Ok, so they have a hostname they can't access why do I care?". If you're doing high-end security on your system admin level then this is the sort of small nitpicking that it takes to be the best.
That would connect the companies. If they're keeping them separate it could be an anti-trust move or more that these companies are going to start trading studios which has been seen in other industries where they trade markets, like the food delivery company you've been ordering from for years has probably changed hands a few times during that time period and probably name too.
You could make the connection a formal one. Years back HBO’s streaming services were actually provided by MLB, they had a contract together. No reason the same couldn’t happen with Netflix and Warner. Could have happened pre-merger too but it wouldn’t have been in Netflix’s interest.
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