Nah if they are actually out of stock (I've only seen it out of stock at exceptional Microcenter prices; Apple is more than happy to sell you at full price) it is because there's a transition to M5 and they want to clear the old stock. OpenClaw is likely a very small portion of the actual Mac mini market, unless you are living in a very dense tech area like San Francisco.
One thing of note that people may forget is that the models were not that great just a year ago, so we need to give it time before counting chickens.
> You don't present any alternative theory for the behavior, just assert that I'm wrong.
Not the GP, but it is easy to refute your theory. Just do a DFU with the port indicated by Apple and it works per Apple instructions. I have personally tested this and can attest it works as intended.
I don't think one logically needs to be burdened to come up with an alternative theory for why your macOS update process to be able to conclusively refute your implication of Apple docs about which port is DFU being wrong.
> it is easy to refute your theory. Just do a DFU with the port indicated by Apple
No, it's not easy. I just said, in the comment you replied to, "I'm not even sure that I have all the prerequisites on hand."
> I have personally tested this
On my Mac model?
To be clear, I'm saying that the doc is wrong about my specific, relatively new Mac model, which I bought a year ago. I'm not claiming that the doc is wrong about other, older Mac models.
I have tested DFU restore on multiple Mac models including MacBook Air {M1, M2, M3, M4}, MacBook Pros {M1 Pro, M1 Max, M3 Max, M4, M4 Max}, Mac mini {M1, M4}, Mac Studio {M1 Max, M3 Ultra} off the top of my head (at least a bunch of older Intel+T2). I am sure many other people would have noticed if the DFU port was marked incorrectly. You are simply too quick to conclude what could be a bug in macOS updater is necessarily tied to DFU port designation. Just as an example, I have a USB-C flash device that is so flaky that sometimes does not work with a port on one direction and connect/disconnect and flipping the direction works. There's just any number of possibilities aside from DFU.
I have an M4 Pro, so you have not tested with my specific model.
> I am sure many other people would have noticed if the DFU port was marked incorrectly.
Why? Again, I'm not generalizing to many Mac models. Apple's doc specifies a very limited exception: 14-inch MacBook Pro with M4 or M5 chip.
And among users of the limited exceptions, who would notice except the few who need to DFU or the few who have macOS installed on an external disk? That doesn't sound like so many to me.
> a bug in macOS updater
So vague as to be an unhelpful handwave.
> Just as an example, I have a USB-C flash device that is so flaky that sometimes does not work with a port on one direction and connect/disconnect and flipping the direction works.
This example is not applicable to my case. The external drive otherwise works perfectly. It's not flakey at all. And in fact it boots into macOS Sequoia just fine, and software update on the volume works fine for non-macOS updates, such as Safari. So again, you've given me zero alternative theories.
Moreover, the symptoms that Michael Tsai described in his case of using the DFU port are exactly the same as the symptoms that I experienced.
[EDIT:] I looked around, but unfortunately I don't appear to have the proper cable to perform a DFU test. In fact I usually need to use some damn dongle just to connect to USB-C.
> [EDIT:] I looked around, but unfortunately I don't appear to have the proper cable to perform a DFU test. In fact I usually need to use some damn dongle just to connect to USB-C.
FYI, USB-3.0 C-to-A dongle + USB-3.0 A-to-C cable definitely works (haven't tested USB 2.0). The C side of the cable needs to be plugged in to the machine being DFU'd not the host machine where the dongle goes.
I didn't have the same issues, but I wouldn't say "it just works".
I've dealt with this in the past two weeks, actually.
I had an M1 MBP that I needed to re-pave with Monterey. Yes, it's end-of-support, but it's also only 4 years old. And should run on that Mac.
So, first step, I make a USB installer, and run it. Great. Reboots, and says "FYI, this is an unsupported OS. You can install a newer OS instead, or run Monterey in "Reduced Security" mode." That was fine for me.
"Installation of Reduced Security mode failed." Nothing else. Eventually my understanding of this was because the machine had been upgraded previously all the way to Tahoe, that somewhere along the line some firmware or something in the EFI had been upgraded and was too new for Monterey.
So what then?
Hmm, more research. "Do an IPSW image restore via DFU", i.e. pave it with a largely installed image. Could work, might have the same issue, but I'm stuck right now, with a Mac I can't install anything on, a four year old $3,000 brick.
Alright, I have a Mac Studio. I get the IPSW image, and Apple Configurator. Connect the two as per Apple's instructions, and (different here to OP), the MBP does indeed show up in Configurator as being "not booted, DFU mode".
Apple's instructions, "Drag the IPSW image onto the DFU 'box' for the target Mac". No. It doesn't light up like it's accepting a drag and drop, and indeed it doesn't. Nor does it accept a "restore..." or similar from the Configurator menu options. There's nothing in Configurator that seems to allow you to image the MBP.
Off to ChatGPT, Reddit, etc., I go.
Much repeating of the same. However, ChatGPT pokes a little button. Near the very end of its answer, it says "Newer versions of macOS may have limitations on the age of the image they might restore. You may need a slightly older macOS to do this. Even an Intel MBP running Ventura could work."
As fortune has it, my fiance happens to still have her old i5 MBP with touchbar, and the latest version of Ventura...
Alright, I need Configurator on this laptop.
No, says the App Store, "You need macOS Sequoia to install Configurator".
I find someone who has helpfully zipped up an older version of Configurator that runs on Ventura, and in the end, it works.
But Apple's docs absolutely are incorrect/incomplete about Configurator, and DFU restores.
"You can use Restore... in the Configurator menu to select the software image". No, you can't, even leaving aside the "old/unsupported". It actually means restoring from a "backup" (presumably Time Machine, though it doesn't specify) and you can't select any file or image.
"Drag the image onto DFU". Doesn't work in that situation, no error, no "hey, you're doing the right thing but I can't do this", just acting like a fool trying to drag the image onto DFU only to have it bounce off.
Like I said, I didn't have the DFU port issues, but Apple's docs on how to make this happen were either non-existent, or incorrect about the process, or flat out told me I couldn't do it. But mostly non-existent and overly simplistic covering the most basic scenarios only - which I get for general support, but by the time you are "connect to a second mac in DFU mode and run Configurator" in their own words, we're way beyond simplistic "you can just install a newer macos" type "instructions".
>ANE is probably the biggest scam "feature" Apple has ever sold.
It is astonishing how often ANE is smeared on here, largely by people who seem to have literally zero idea what they're talking about. It's often pushed by either/or people who bizarrely need to wave a flag.
MLX doesn't use ANE for the single and only reason that Apple hid the ANE behind CoreML, exposing zero public APIs to utilize ANE directly, and MLX -- being basically an experimental grounds -- wanted to hand roll their implementation around the GPU / CPU. They literally, directly state this as the reason. People inventing technical reasons for why MLX doesn't use ANE are basically just manufacturing a fan fiction. This isn't to say that ANE would be suitable for a lot of MLX tasks, and it is a highly optimized, power-efficient inference hardware that doesn't work for a lot of purposes, but its exclusion is not due to technically unsuitability.
Further, the ANE on both my Mac and my iPhone is constantly attenuating and improving my experience. Little stuff like extracting contents from images. Ever browse in Safari and notice that you can highlight text in the image almost instantly after loading a page? Every image, context and features detected effortlessly. Zero fans cycling up. Power usage at a trickle. It just works. It's the same way that when I take a photo I can search "Maine Coon" and get pictures of my cats, ANE used for subject and feature extraction. Computational photography massively leverages the ANE.
At a trickle of power.
Scam? Yeah, I like my battery lasting for more than a couple of minutes.
Apple intended ANE to bring their own NN augmentations to the OS and thus the user experience, and even the availability in CoreML as a runtime engine is more limited than what Apple's own software can do. Apple basically limits the runtime usage to ensure that no third party apps inhibit or restrict Apple's own use of this hardware.
> This is wrong, a discovery that took me about a half dozen attempts to update macOS on an external disk. I have a 16-inch MacBook Pro with an M4 chip, specifically an M4 Pro chip, and the DFU port seems to be the USB-C port on the right side of the Mac, not on the left side."
It appears that the author is directly contradicting your read.
Now the question is: what is left and what is right. For the user this most logically would be whats left and what's right when they look at the open display. For Apple it may be when you look at the top cover with the logo in proper direction. They have odd priorities like that. :D
I have dealt with M1 Max and M4 Max MacBook Pros DFU mode many times[1], and the documentation is accurate. The primary DFU port is definitely what Apple says. I don't know, other ports may or may not exhibit DFU-like capabilities also; if so that would be unsupported and does not change correctness of Apple documentation.
UPDATE: nevermind--removed a paragraph as it does not appear the root cause is which port is DFU, but a misunderstanding of the DFU process by the blogpost.
[1]: at least once per every iOS/macOS device I have purchased to protect against software supply chain attacks when you receive a laptop in mail. DFU-restoring Apple software ensures that the OS you run is not tampered with as long as there is no bootrom exploit or hardware modification.
Not sure, maybe there are other ways to achieve that (instinctively, I think the attack surface is much larger in your solution as it relies on the correctness of recoveryOS, not just bootrom/iBoot), but DFU would be easiest/safest/fastest and less error-prone for me. My ritual is to just plug in another Mac running Apple Configurator to my newly arrived iOS/macOS device and restore the OS image (actually faster than using a USB disk to install macOS). I think your approach may validate the system disk, but not whether configuration in data partition is loading a separate key logger binary on boot.
The luxury of having a second Mac to DFU is useful, sure — but optional. Once you’ve got rescue working, you just boop the data partition and the system is in sealed-safe fresh start mode.
Well, the risk there is slightly higher as you are assuming rescue partition does not have an exploit planted? Empirically, we've had iOS jailbreaks that exploited higher level kernel, but not bootrom.
That said I do it because DFU has been just faster than having the system do "Internet Recovery" not strictly for security purposes.
FWIW, you do not need another Mac to DFU restore another. Any computer could do[1].
Well, I used to open with wiping the partition table from rescue terminal, when I couldn’t prove anything was sealed properly, which forces Network Recovery from the bootrom (and serves as a nice confirmation that it was wiped) — but now that the OS can get a secure attestation from the bootrom, I don’t stress quite so much about that. There are a lot of advantages to attestation in time savings!
The author followed the "all other MacBooks" case, but it appears that their Mac (a 16-inch model) also has it on the other side than the instructions claim.
I am reading the post again. It does appear the author is not fully aware what DFU is supposed to do. They are talking about "storage devices" in that context, which is a total misread--their interpretation of DFU seems to be something close to "default boot device."
The DFU port is definitely not the singular one on the right side of the device. The documentation debate is about which port on the left side of the device (closer or farther from MagSafe.)
> They are talking about "storage devices" in that context, which is a total misread
What misread are you talking about? I'm talking about storage devices because the documentation says you can't update macOS on an external storage device while it's connected to the DFU port.
> their interpretation of DFU seems to be something close to "default boot device."
No, that's not my interpretation. I have no idea where you're getting that from the blog post.
Fair enough. I now see the connection (i.e. separate from DFU process another doc excludes DFU designated port from participating in your process.) Regardless the documentation is 100% correct re which port is DFU port. If your process fails, it could be for any number of reasons only one of which has to do with using the DFU port, so it is not a logical implication to conclude the failure means DFU port is wrong.
You misunderstand what this is. You suggested in another comment that I test the theory by trying the DFU process, but that is not reductio ad absurdum.
Theory: "the DFU port seems to be the USB-C port on the right side of the Mac [p], not on the left side."
Reductio ad absurdum: "[p] port R is DFU => [q] we should be able to execute DFU process on port R (and not port L)" We execute DFU on port R and it fails [NOT q], therefore [NOT p], so the theory cannot be correct. QED
You can turn every empirical theory into a so-called "reductio ad absurdum" by phrasing the results of empirical tests as a premise in the argument, but that is itself totally absurd and a mockery of the logical idea.
It's not a mockery—that is precisely at the core of scientific method. Theory makes predictions (logical implications), and if you empirically find contradictory evidence, the theory is proven incorrect.
> Theory makes predictions (logical implications), and if you empirically find contradictory evidence, the theory is proven incorrect.
Of course. But again, that is not the form of argumentation known as reductio ad absurdum.
Reductio ad absurdum is not at the core of scientific method. Reductio ad absurdum is used for example in pure, nonempirical mathematics and geometry, and typically starts by assuming the opposite of the conclusion.
Ah yes the woke practice of the singular they, when gender doesn't matter or is ambiguous. Which a hundo-percent never existed before scary mean woke-ism.
Some of us have done it that way since Usenet in the early 1980s w/out ever having worked in corporations, attended HR meetings, and well before woke entered the recent zeitgeist lexicon.
Using they is indeed a grammatical usage stretching back centuries in the english language.
Sure, it is a personal experience, but no, you cannot gaslight me out of my personal experience by citing your superior knowledge of Middle English. The existence of such construct is not germane here. Forcing people to use the language a certain way is. Anyone who has faced this knows exactly what I am talking about and they can judge for themselves. Since this subthread was adding precisely zero value, I am going to stop right here.
I would not deny you your experience, I merely remind you that you do not speak for all and the experience of others.
Perhaps take your complaint to the root offending comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46853452 that started all this by projecting their personal gripes outwards and onto all.
It's SO FUNNY HOW YOU JUST USED IT. Oh my god, I knew you would eventually, but in an actual reply in this thread. Truly amazing.
Anyone... They...
But yeah, I'm the weird one for using "they" the same you did rather than go look up the post authors gender. Jesus fucking Christ. Props for keeping the makeup on.
Really? You are advocating regional/civil war, aligned with ethnic ties at that, instead of surgical regime change by the US? How would a regime change of the Mullahs equate to "redrawing borders?" No such thing happened when they were installed and won't need to happen now. Seems like that's what you are suggesting.
> How would a regime change of the Mullahs equate to "redrawing borders?"
It doesn’t. Maybe there is a Delcy Rodriguez in the IRGC. I’m doubtful. If there isn’t, we have the option of creating a power vacuum or quarantining the problem.
I’m arguing for the latter. The Azeri-majority northnorth to Azerbaijan; the Turkic areas to its west to Turkey [1]. Balochistani southeast to Pakistan. Arab southwest to Iraq. Hell, if you’re ambitious, find a way to give Bandar Abbas to the Emiratis and secure the Strait of Hormuz.
There's a widely popular Shah who is ready to take the helm, at least for a "transition" and that's what the majority seems to want in the protests. I'm certain given enough enticement from United States, we can easily find someone who is able and willing from the army or even an IRGC figure who would eagerly jump on the opportunity. Plus, you somehow think the Iranians would just roll with your whiteboard map? Even among the minorities--let alone the majority--you specified, it is not clear that separation is the predominant preference. Many of those plans may look attractive today to some simply because Islamic Republic has mismanaged the economy, not because there is no national bond. To boot, why would United States prefer to hand over such important region to arguably as bad or worse governing bodies like Pakistan, Taliban, or Iraq, and questionable partners like Turkey[1], rather than own Iran by installing its own preferred partner as an ally[1]? Are you delusional?
[1]: I won't be surprised if regime change will be coming for Erdogan not too far from now, after Iran is done.
[2]: If US really wants to shit on the region like that, there are various cards they could have played much easier: unleash groups like MEK/Kurds and start a civil war. So far, it does appear Israel/US behavior, like the way they conducted the 12 day war, is to keep Iran intact and does not mess with the balance of power in the region as much as possible.
> we can easily find someone who is able and willing from the army or even an IRGC figure who would eagerly jump on the opportunity
This is not the history of nation building.
> Even among the minorities--let alone the majority--you specified, it is not clear that separation is the predominant preference
They have insurgencies for a reason. Many of these groups were also promised some level of self governance, promises which have been trotted back.
> why would United States prefer to hand over such important region to arguably as bad or worse governing bodies like Pakistan, Taliban, or Iraq, and questionable partners like Turkey
Never said Taliban. We have influence over Iraq. And even Pakistan isn’t really fucking with American interests that much, and giving them Balochistan might help them with their anti-terror mission. (It would also piss off India. So maybe skip that, too.)
> to keep Iran intact and does not mess with the balance of power in the region as much as possible
I’m not suggesting this is currently U.S. strategy. I’m saying there are advantages to it over trying to do the Shah again. Namely, it shatters a regional problem more evenly and protects choke points around the Caspian and Strait of Hormuz.
Sure if you watch #AyatollahBBC or Democrat media who created the beast in the first place under Carter.
--
The rest I will just let you wait and see... There may be some success on the Kurdish/Azeri separationist fronts, but there is less than zero chance Pakistan and Iraq could take over the rest of the country.
The majority of Iranians hate Pakistan and Arabs. The whole undercurrent of the protest is a nationalist movement to kick Islam and Arab culture out. You take a province here a province there; what to do with the rest?
> Sure if you watch #AyatollahBBC or Democrat media who created the beast in the first place under Carter
Non-English language assessments from countries in Europe or Asia that haven’t been calling theirq shots wrong in the Middle East for two generations.
I’m not saying we can conclude the Shah is unpopular. Just that we only have quality evidence that he is narrowly popular, and at that moreso abroad and in English-language press.
> You take a province here a province there; what to do with the rest?
Let them have their mullahs. (Or not.) Taliban has been fine from a regional-security perspective. So, increasingly, is Syria.
President Nixon was an outspoken friend of the Shah. It was Carter administration that stabbed him in the back and negotiated with Khomeini in the first place. The hostage crisis happened about 9-10 months after Khomeini was in power and only towards the end of that crisis you could argue Reagan was in the picture at all. The love for Islamists by the Democrats in power never ended and Clinton, Obama, and Biden all were desperate in appeasing the Mullah regime. It's the ousting of the Shah and appeasing the Mullahs that garners the hate.
Clinton using executive orders and legislation to keep Russia and Iran from cooperating on defense was a desperate act of "Mullah" appeasement? It was the iranians that called for the Negev summit?
Yes, it is all relative. It is appeasement compared to war and much heavier sanctions that ended up being necessary. Clinton and even Bush II administrations were hoping internal change would come up during Khatami era and hoping for him to be Gorbachev. Regardless of Bush II harsh rhetoric, the real animosity only really started after Ahmadinejad was installed in Iran. You are correct that Clinton was still not as friendly as the other two, who very explicitly played into their hands.
In any case I was simply responding to OP's "why" question and that their theory on blaming Reagan allegedly vs Carter on a narrow point, highlighting that particular case is temporally much later, and has no relevance to the underlying reason Carter is hated over there.
I don't think them acknowledging anything in public is either necessary or relevant to the discussion. None of this is germane to the original question posed and I have no intention to change the narrative in your head so I'm out of here.
What "narrative"? You made a claim about "desperate appeasement", and if that was true, I imagine that iranian politicians and twelver clergy would brag about it incessantly.
Nah if they are actually out of stock (I've only seen it out of stock at exceptional Microcenter prices; Apple is more than happy to sell you at full price) it is because there's a transition to M5 and they want to clear the old stock. OpenClaw is likely a very small portion of the actual Mac mini market, unless you are living in a very dense tech area like San Francisco.
One thing of note that people may forget is that the models were not that great just a year ago, so we need to give it time before counting chickens.
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