I wish there were a good workaround for those of us condemned to MS365/Outlook. Outlook desktop is very unstable and buggy, and Outlook web is full of weird antipatterns. For example, it is absurdly annoying to get a direct link to an e-mail message in Outlook web. If it were easy, I would just pass that url to org-protocol in the browser and keep my tasks organized with backlinks to the e-mails that originated those tasks or projects.
As it is, my emacs and e-mail are almost fully separated due to (I'm assuming intentional) lack of a simple method of interoperability.
I have been able to use mu4e with my o365 account using davmail (https://davmail.sourceforge.net/). I will say it was a bit of a pain to get authentication right, and involved a lot of trial and error.
Oh goodness, truthfully I'm not sure how well I understand it. I initially set it up a few years ago, and recently futzed with it after my organization changed something about their auth. My configs aren't really in a shareable state so I hope this ramble is at least somewhat helpful.
Basically DavMail connects to outlook at creates a local smtp and imap server which I connect to with mbsyc and msmtp. Mu indexes these emails from the local server created by DavMail, and Mu4e displays them and sends them with that local server as well. Once you have DavMail setup you can basically follow any standard mu/mutt/msmtp/mbsync tutorial, just use localhost and the ports exposed by DavMail.
Getting DavMail setup can be the tricky part, I remember having a lot of trouble, but I think it was related to the fact that the config I was editing wasn't being picked up systemd service that was controlling DavMail. The best advice I can give you is experiment with different authentication modes (davmail.mode in the config) and try sending mail to the DavMail server in an attempt to trigger it to do the authentication workflow.
In the end, set davmail.mode=O365Manual and davmail.url=https://outlook.office365.com/EWS/Exchange.asmx
Upon attempting to send an email from mu4e it opened up a browser to do a microsoft authentication, and then I believe it saved a token in my config file (variable davmail.oauth.<your email>.refreshToken) which has been handling authentication without issue for the past few months.
Some miscellaneous notes. First, this may have been harder for me as it was not possible for me to use the DavMail GUI which might make the authentication workflow easier. I also have two email username@organization and first.last@organization. I have all of my davmail,msmtp, and mbsync configurations using username@organization, My mu4e config references the username@organization maildir folders, but my user-mail-address variable is first.last@organization and that is what recipients see (although mu complains about not knowing about the first.last account). Lastly, this DavMail setup isn't mu4e specific, I initially used it with mutt, and it worked for that as well.
I hope this is helpful, if there's interest I can try to go through the setup from the beginning and create a more in depth tutorial. I wish Microsoft did not make this such a pain, and I wonder if DavMail's days of effectiveness will soon be over...
I STILL don’t get this obsession with “participation trophies.” I’ve never seen one, I’ve never met anyone who says they’ve awarded one to someone, and I’ve never met anyone who received one.
I’ve seen very minor “door prizes” that say, thanks for attending this event, etc. But this “participation trophy” canard has coasted for 30+ years now.
I got one at a tae kwon do tournament when I was in middle school. It was my first time entering something like that, I lost immediately and was not feeling great about it. I just wanted to leave. My dad made me go back to pick up a trophy from this giant table full of participation trophies. I didn’t want it. I don’t know what happened to it. I didn’t understand why anyone would want a memento of an embarrassing loss. Participation trophies are stupid, or for people who are too dumb to realized they lost and it’s a pity trophy. Picking up that trophy was worse than the actual loss, I remember being more upset about that dumb trophy than anything else.
This was back in the 90s.
In something like a foot race, I get it. Most people running a marathon aren’t trying to win, they are just trying to finish, or hit their personal targets. They can still have a “win” without coming in first. But in a sport where there is a clear winner and loser, I felt insulted getting a trophy just for showing up. At 11 or 12 I already felt too old to be treated like that.
I think this marathon attitude of not trying to win but to hit personal targets could be applied in other areas of life and in other sports even with clear "winners". None of this is about the destination. We all arrive at the same one.
I like having a physical representation of something I did that pushed myself. In the case of a marathon it's normally a t-shirt. No one makes fun of that. But that t-shirt is 100% a 'participation trophy' but worse, it's literally announcing to the world when worn 'I participated'.
So many anti-participation trophy tough guys wear these participation trophies all the time. Vietnam hat? Participation trophy. Fun run shirt? Participation trophy. Iron man shirt? Participation trophy. Police/military challenge coin? Participation trophy. Facebook picture post of an event you did? Believe it or not, participation trophy.
But then it's given to a kid? Beyond the pale! Ridiculous! Why give them a memory/momento that they played baseball, that they showed up to sparing event, or did a form demo in front of judges. All things very intimidating to kids. I remember showing up to pee-wee football after doing badly in the game. As a kid it was intimidating to show up after doing poorly. That stuff can be as mentally pushing themselves as a marathon for an adult. Such a weird/small/toxic mindset to criticize rewarding that behavior, or thinking the kids that showed up all season for a losing team didn't accomplish anything.
What I got was a literal trophy, not a t-shirt or something else. A t-shirt or other momento for an event is fine, but a trophy implies a win.
There was a vendor at the tournament selling throwing stars and stuff. I got one of those. That was my momento from the event (which I still have a know exactly where it is decades later). It was something I wanted that I wouldn’t have got had I not pushed myself to show up. Running across that is a fond memory, while running across that participation trophy brings up pretty terrible memories.
I’m not against rewarding pushing yourself for showing up, but as a kid, the trophy was the wrong reward for me, it felt insulting. An event t-shirt would have felt much better.
I got participating trophies from soccer or karate when I was a child. I also got larger trophies when I won events. Even as a freaking eight year old I understood that this was the same as a t-shirt. It was a fun memento from a sports season or a sparring tournament. I do not believe I know a single person who feels negatively about such things.
Surely after years of screaming about participation trophies there should be some evidence that this harmed kids if it were a real thing, right?
The first trophy I ever got was when my first ever soccer team took first place for the season, so maybe that distorted my view. The only other trophy I ever got was that tae kwon do participation trophy, so I wasn’t collecting these things at every event like t-shirts. A trophy felt like it meant something, which is why the participation trophy felt so humiliating.
I could argue that harmed me. I never entered another tournament after that. The walk to pick up that trophy is a core memory, and one that I didn’t want to relive at any future events. Had I gone, lost, but got a cool shirt, I probably would have been down to get more cool shirts. Had I gone to more, maybe I could have improved and won a trophy that actually meant something.
And I enjoyed my trophies that I got merely for participating even alongside the ones I got for winning. They became memories that I could relive. "Oh, that was the season where my good friend Kevin was on the team."
When people screech about participation trophies being modern degeneracy I want to see actual data demonstrating some real harm. Because from where I sit I see a nice thing being done for children and joy coming from that.
A lot of organized running events give everyone a medal as they cross the finish line.
Part of my brain thinks it is a racket. The organizer buys them for $X and sells them to the event for a multiple. If that isn't the case, it still makes sense for whoever makes them to promote the idea, because they get to sell more of them that way.
I have a whole closet full of this heavy junk - its not like I am going to hang them up and display proudly in my home. "Hey check this sweet medal from the 50K I finished last in 12 years ago!"
At least race participation shirts have some utility.
This is fine. Getting yourself into shape to even be able to finish a 5k or better is an accomplishment in itself. There is no comparison to the trophies that every little leaguer gets for having parents drop them off at practice.
There are a handful of people who enter these events trying to win. They get money. For the rest of us, finishing represents a victory over the couch, that pint of ice cream, or general malaise towards bettering ourselves.
So I’ll take that finishing medal and be proud of it.
Besides, the same boomer generation who complains about participation trophies is the same generation who invented them.
A similar thread that you should have seen is grade inflation.
Most people get A's and don't learn that much, teachers are punished for giving bad grades, a lot of people graduate without much added knowledge or skill.
I would prefer no grades, but telling so many people they're doing top notch work when they aren't is a problem.
Here in this thread there are people who are insisting that the harm is specific to the physical object of a trophy, not some general thing given to everybody who shows up.
The participation trophies of the 80s and 90s were for the parents, not the children. (See sibling comment with 'tae kwon do tournament.') Perhaps it made parenting easier, "Be proud you tried, this shiny bauble is all the proof you need!" Or, IMO more likely, the parents liked the affirmation it awarded them for their effort and/or they made for easier status signaling when displayed in a pile for house guests to admire.
I know as a kid I never gave two poops about 'em. They felt condescending.
Getting a thing showing that you participated isn't such a weird concept. It's just a physical momento, like a t-shirt from a concert or a lanyard badge from a convention. Getting a medal for doing a race is fine. It's a thing I can hang on my wall that I can look at and remember I did that 10k that time. A trophy is a bit weird and overkill, but a simple momento is just that.
I always have to think about "Eighty percent of success is showing up" when I read about participation trophies. I think it's a good idea to stimulate participation. "Winning" is something you only do if you participate a lot.
They were a thing in the 90's and 00's for some K-12 events as fallout from the children's excessive self-esteem building movement. They usually took the form of cheap little ribbons rather than trophies. I always thought they were insulting and reminders of losing so I threw them away.
We had them in the 1980s in elementary school, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participation_trophy says the practice is over a century old, and the "backlash against participation trophies intensified in the 1990s."
There's no need to take my work for it. The Arlington Heights Daily Herald Suburban Chicago (1975-11-28) article at https://archive.org/details/arlington-heights-daily-herald-s... describes how every soccer team member at a high school got a participation trophy.
Speaking of ribbons, the same Wikipedia page points out "the US military has awarded ribbons to anyone who participates in surface combat".
"I spent a year at Microsoft working on Windows 3.1. During that time, I received three team T-shirts, a team rugby shirt, a team beach towel, and a team mouse pad. I also took part in a team train ride and a nice dinner on the local "Dinner Train" and another dinner at a nice restaurant. If I had been an employee, I would also have received a few more shirts, a Microsoft watch, a plaque for participating in the project, and a big Lucite "Ship-It" award for shipping the project. The total value of this stuff is probably only two or three hundred dollars, but as Tom Peters and Robert Waterman say, companies with excellent motivation don't miss any opportunity to shower their employees with nonmonetary rewards."
If you go to some youth sports league, it is common that every kid will get a medal or trophy regardless of which team in the league won or lost.
But it also exists for adults. Go to the NYC marathon? Everyone gets a medal. I’ve participated in a lot of organized bicycle rides. The rides aren’t even competitive like the marathon is. They are not races. But at the finish line everyone gets a medal regardless of what distance they rode, or how quickly.
The harsh truth about the participation trophies is that boomers complain about them the most, but they are the ones responsible for them! I’m a millennial. I remember being in a youth basketball league in middle school. Our team did not win. At the final day, every kid on every team got a tiny trophy. I was very confused by this at the time. I expected only the best team to get anything. But who was running that league and decided to hand out those trophies?! Our boomer parents!
Marathons and long bikes at least require you to perform a major amount of training and focus.
Not everyone that starts at the line gets a medal because there are people that don't finish and they don't get their medal.
Once you start moralizing about only winners should get medals or trophies, then you have to start looking at arbitrary distinctions like men's and women's different divisions, age divisions, weight divisions, pro versus amateur, college versus high school.
Really the extension of logic is that only the champion of a given sport or event at the very highest level should get a trophy.
I think what rubs a lot of people about youth sports participation trophies, is that you're basically rewarding just showing up, well devaluing actual focus training preparation or genetic advantage of the better players.
A participation trophy is for finishing a sports season, or finishing an event (maybe a martial arts event, maybe a marathon). Finishing is something that can be especially challenging to finish/comit to week after week as a kid when your team isn't even winning, or you know you have zero chance of coming in first.
I've worked in the corporate world for decades across multiple different sectors and I've never seen anything like one. I'm in the UK though - maybe it's different where you are.
I find it hard to believe that the UK corporate world is so different that they don’t have mandatory trainings with fancy certificates presented to you at the end.
Oh that, yeah I've seen pointless certificates given out for doing crappy mandatory training courses.
Although, the only place I've seen them is in a company whose HQ is in the US. So maybe that is more of a US thing too.
To be honest, I never saw them as a participation reward. Everyone hates doing the damn things in the first place, nobody cares about getting the certificate.
That's only if you're at a place that wants to make it look like they care. Most of the places I've familiar with really don't even put forth that level of effort.
Worth pointing out that a child of the 90s would have boomer parents. The very same generation that complains about the trophies invented the practice.
> Wonder how all of the focus seem to happen at the same time
Because this practice was made legal very recently in most places in the US and a concomitant advertising boom has saturated the media. Before the last few years, your average American couldn't bet on sports without visiting a casino sports book in person, or having a bookie (i.e., entering into a risky relationship with organized crime). TV sports coverage now openly refers to how you can use their analysis to make bets.
This is the first time I heard of this, I decided to look up some of the news stories behind it. Maybe I'm nieve, but I thought the Sicilian Mafia died out decades a
The Sicilian Mafia (La Cosa Nostra) refers exclusively to the mafia on the island of Sicily, not the Mob which traces its lineage back to Sicilian immigrants.
It's being said because the Five Families was erroneously conflated with Cosa Nostra in the original press conference by one of the representatives of law enforcement.
If people can't afford the rents then they'll just cram more people in. Currently have a "Joey/Chandler" style apartment form friends with 2 people in for $4k/month? Now you get 4. Or 6. Price increases to $6k/month but it's down on a per-person basis.
In some cities you get time-sharing beds. In 2003 I lived (for 3 weeks) in a house in London, I had my own room - the largest in the house. A smaller room had a couple with a baby, the loft had 3 mattresses in it but 4 people living there, time-sharing with the mattresses like you have in a nuclear submarine.
There's plenty of opportunity for landlords to increases costs even if peoples incomes can't support an increase.
As it is, my emacs and e-mail are almost fully separated due to (I'm assuming intentional) lack of a simple method of interoperability.
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