The US would spend 20 years arguing about which agency's jurisdiction it was, and ignore the dead babies?
No, wait, Volvo is European. They'd impose a 300% tariff and direct anyone who wanted a baby-killing model car to buy one from US manufacturers instead.
Of course a bug is negative business value. Perhaps the benefit of shipping faster was worth the cost of introducing bugs, but that doesn't make it not a cost.
Because the entire codebase is crap, each user encounters a different bug. So now all your customers are mad, but they’re all mad for different reasons, and support is powerless to do anything about it. The problems pile up but they’re can’t be solved without a competent rewrite. This is a bad place to be.
And at some level of sloppiness you can get load bearing bugs, where there’s an unknown amount of behavior that’s dependent on core logic being dead wrong. Yes, I’ve encountered that one…
Once you gain some professional experience working with software development, you'll understand that that's exactly how it goes.
I think you are failing to understand the "soft" in "software". Changing software is trivial. All software has bugs, but the only ones being worked on are those which are a) deemed worthy of being worked on, b) have customer impact.
> So now all your customers are mad, but they’re all mad for different reasons, and support is powerless to do anything about it.
That's not how it works. You are somehow assuming software isn't maintained. What do you think software developers do for a living?
Nothing I just described was hypothetical. I’ve been the developer on the rewrite crew, the EM determining if there’s anything to salvage, and the client with a list of critical bugs that aren’t getting fixed and ultimately killed the contract.
If you haven’t seen anything reach that level of tech debt with active clients, well, lucky you.
If you can see the future and know no-one will ever encounter it, maybe not. But in the real world you presumably think there's some risk (unless no-one is using this codebase at all - but in that case the whole thing has negative business value, since it's incurring some cost and providing no benefit).
> Does it make you feel good to participate in a meaningless charade of security theater? Or would you rather spend your time doing some of value?
I think there is a lot of value in being part of a democratic society that has structured dispute-resolution processes. Part of the cost of that is occasionally going along with something pointless (even if some things warrant civil disobedience, not everything does), and that's a vital democratic responsibility. So yes, I do feel good doing that - the same kind of good I feel when I pick up someone else's litter or give up my time for jury service. If anything, going along with a law you disagree with is harder, and more virtuous, than those.
So "Just don't be gay/smoke weed, it's not legal, if you don't like it there's a process to get that changed" is the kind of viewpoint that's compatible with your ideology then?
Law in a democracy ALWAYS lags public sentiment because without sentiment to pander to no politician will lift a finger. Overt sentiment always lags behind closed doors sentiment because practically nobody is gonna display overt sentiment until there's some indication from their experience that support for their sentiment is there. There MUST be room for petty noncompliance to let people discover that the noncompliance in some unknown case is perhaps not bad in order to kick start the process.
People like you are actively working to prevent and delay alignment between the people and the government/laws. If everyone subscribed to your ideology nothing would ever get done. If more people subscribed to it then things would change slower than they do.
You can tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night but this sort of compliance as a virtue ideology you subscribe to is the evil that keeps our democracies from delivering good results promptly. I'm not saying go murder your neighbor because "fuck the law" or whatever, but an ideology that does not permit for deviance when such deviance is tasteful is a bad one.
> So "Just don't be gay/smoke weed, it's not legal, if you don't like it there's a process to get that changed" is the kind of viewpoint that's compatible with your ideology then?
Sure (although I don't think there's ever been a law against being gay, only against particular acts).
> There MUST be room for petty noncompliance to let people discover that the noncompliance in some unknown case is perhaps not bad in order to kick start the process.
Petty noncompliance isn't the only source of information, and even if it was, that doesn't negate the cost to society.
> People like you are actively working to prevent and delay alignment between the people and the government/laws. If everyone subscribed to your ideology nothing would ever get done. If more people subscribed to it then things would change slower than they do.
So the wild swings of public opinion will be tempered somewhat, and society's path will be smoothed. Yes, that's the point. Same spirit as having a constitution and a second chamber rather than making everything run on a simple majority.
> I'm not saying go murder your neighbor because "fuck the law" or whatever
But you are. That's where your ideology leads once people start following it in practice.
Python was already like that. A cascade of beginners cargo-culting other beginners, because it's easy enough to get started that everyone think's they're an expert and will blog about it. Switch to a language with a bit of a barrier to entry and you avoid the problem.
If running your business to '90s standards is acceptable, sure, you can use AI to automate your manual processes with the same error rate and keep doing the same thing indefinitely.
But if the competitors have real software engineers and have used them to actually improve reliability, you'll be left behind.
What software engineers are being hired to work on:
- A facilities management company
- A bar/restaurant with a staff of 8
- An Architecture office
- A Law Firm with 10 associates
- A day care
- A car repair shop
- A cement factory
- A family-owned hotel
- A conference/event organizer
- A video production crew
- A roofing company
Ok, but if your competitors are getting/using software from a supplier who has real software engineers, and using that to operate at a higher level of reliability, then the same argument goes through.
If you want to go down the value chain, then by definition the less valuable the software is and the easier to be commoditized. The automation is not going to help just the manager-turned-vibecoder, it's also going to help professionals to create FOSS alternatives that can be robust enough.
It's not going to happen overnight, but the trend is there.
> If you want to go down the value chain, then by definition the less valuable the software is and the easier to be commoditized.
I'm not sure that holds for what we're talking about - high-value software can afford to be somewhat flaky because it delivers enough value when it works to make up for it, software that's only marginally worthwhile needs to be reliable because if it isn't then it's not worth the bother. Commoditized fields are more competitive.
> The automation is not going to help just the manager-turned-vibecoder, it's also going to help professionals to create FOSS alternatives that can be robust enough.
Not convinced. In my experience these tools don't really help with creating high-quality software. Maybe they'll get there eventually (at which point we're all out of a job), but right now they can't "hit the high notes".
Doesn't that also lead to the conclusion that "software engineers" are going to lose their ability to command high salaries, if the real value is in the domain expertise and not in the ability of optimizing some part of the business process?
> Doesn't that also lead to the conclusion that "software engineers" are going to lose their ability to command high salaries, if the real value is in the domain expertise and not in the ability of optimizing some part of the business process?
I mean the job has always required both - just being good at leetcode isn't enough to get paid well (except perhaps where there is a dysfunctional interview process), the key skill is being able to translate back and forth between the world of software and the world of business. Regular folk seemingly still find it difficult to think rigorously, in the way that fully correct automation requires, and AI hasn't actually helped with that any, so I think people with that skill will still command a premium. Work that doesn't benefit from rigour - being able to slap together a quick marketing site on wordpress or what have you - will pay badly if at all, but that was already the low end of the industry I think.
> There's a lot of complexity and management attention and testing and programmer costs involved in building something in house such that you need a very obvious ROI before you attempt it especially since in house efforts can fail.
I wonder how much of the benefit of AI is just companies permitting it to bypass their process overhead. (And how many will soon be discovering why that process overhead was there)
Sure, there's a lot of process that is entirely justified, but there's also a whole lot of process that exists for reasons that are no longer relevant or simply because there are a lot more people whose job it is to make process than whose job it is to stop people from making too much process.
No, wait, Volvo is European. They'd impose a 300% tariff and direct anyone who wanted a baby-killing model car to buy one from US manufacturers instead.
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