Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | delfinom's commentslogin

>There is no one to turn to and bully for compliance.

They can and will go after anyone that distributes it.


Eh? They can, but it makes any cases based on evidence gathered from the declared unconstitutional searches basically dead and easily tossed in courts.

I don't know if that applies if you get a Trump judge.

CEO of Palantir looks like he does lines of coke in the bathroom before speaking. I don't know if anything that cokehead says can be taken seriously or true.

The year of that earnings call the stock went up 5x. He could have walked up naked and given an hallucinogenic induced speech and his investors would have lapped it up. This was a moment where a CEO was able to actually speak his mind without reproach. A rare glimpse where you learn what these surveillance companies are actually thinking.

>than have a look on how the environment in the countries you will be competing with looks like,

You are absolutely relying on some very outdated tropes, especially because I know China is in your mind. China remains a production powerhouse and has radically overhaul the country environmentally in the last 15 years. It's pulling away fast and hard in green energy. It's a country that had to go from mass poverty to modern era in 50 years compared to the hundreds of years. They aren't perfect yet, not California level of drinking water from sewers, but I fully believe they'll get there and still be a production power house by not having delusions and anti-engineering drive decisions.


No, China wasn't "on my mind". Last been there two weeks ago. I am well aware that China in most areas is lightyears ahead of the Western world. I like highspeed trains ;)

I really meant what I wrote: Compare the environment. Pretty much everybody in Shenzhen hates Shenzhen. People live in tiny apartments. And not because they are poor: Even if you have money, you live in such a tiny box. Because everybody understands that Shenzhen is a Machine, and you are a part of that machine. Your goal is to one day be able to have made enough money to be able to exit that system, and unlike the USA, that actually really works.

Want to build electronics manufacturing and be able to compete with Shenzhen? Start by first building 50,000 box apartments of 200 square feet in size. Next step: Find 50,000 US Americans who want to work in that machine.

So yes, when it comes to electronics, it's not so much about getting poisoned by a poisoned nature, but by suffering in another way.

For clothes it's a different matter, for example. There you still have the oldschool stuff - want the US to be able to compete? Let's give the kids some cancer!

Let me try to re-phrase: Go to the place where stuff is successfully made that you want to in-source into the USA. Then make an informed decision if you really want the baggage that comes with it at home.

I am massively benefitting from something like Shenzhen existing on this planet. It is so effective and productive because it was designed for that from the ground up. Would I want anything like Shenzhen anywhere near me? Hell no!

Most US Americans asking for re-industrialization have neither worked in those industries nor even have a clue what it feels like working in those industries. The people who are asking for these industrial jobs to be re-created are those who do not have any intention to take one of those jobs.


It's not about clean inputs, its about industrial outputs and waste product. China is NOT a leader in that field. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-57853-z

>that the people who are invested apparently don't need liquidity

The rich and ultra rich don't need liquidity, they have our 401k plans for that.


The rich and ultra rich tend to borrow against their investments rather than spending their own money. As long as the number continues to go up it's basically a free money pipe for everyone over a certain level of wealth.

The US passed the CLOUD Act which subject all those sovereign clouds run by US companies completely subject to US spying and hijack.

Those offerings are garbage for anyone outside the US.


Countries hosting the data centres can make it illegal to allow access from outside their area/EU... or specifically to US entities along with making it illegal to move any data out without customer/local gov approval... This isn't rocket science. The company cannot do business if it doesn't follow the law. There are laws like this in places already. The company's local subsidiary tells the American company to politely pound sand and the American company says sorry, we tried, but do not have the capability to do as asked.

America has become China in the eyes of the world.

Everyone banned Huawei products despite the ability to pass laws saying Huawei must respect data sovereignty. They didn't ban US firms, because unlike China the USA was championing the rule of law at the time. Data sovereignty only works if the USA respects the laws of other countries, even though, just like China, they could coerce / bribe citizens and firms to bypass them. Such activity would be largely undetectable. Who is going to know if someone peeked at a secret document stored in Azure? There was a huge amount of trust involved in the arrangement.

The USA has now denounced the rule of law, is withdrawing the the institutions set up to champion it, and has shut down the ICCC's access to some services. The trust has gone.


An American company will always follow US law, no matter the local laws.

It isn't usually an American company doing the local operations, but a local subsidiary. Like Walmart Canada telling Walmart corporate to pound sand in the 1990's over Cuban pajamas. It's illegal for Canadian companies to participate in the US embargo of Cuba.

This is all well within the realm of what governments can and do regulate. Want to do business in a country with their laws or not is the choice.


At some point it comes to a head; Walmart corporate and the USA didn't care enough about Cuban pajamas, but in a situation where they DO care, you quickly get Вкусно – и точка.

The EU (nay, perhaps every country) should be prepared to deal with Microsoft or AWS completely cutting them off from access to all their systems - what would be the cost and impact?

We are rapidly heading to not one Internet, but country-specific internets that may or may not bridge to other ones in some cases.


Apparently AWS sovereign cloud is designed to continue operating even if the US offices cut them off. The servers are in the EU and the people running them are subject to EU laws, not US ones.

Realistically a US executive could be legally required to give an EU engineer a command that they legally couldn’t follow. At that point I guess we find out if the engineers’ national or corporate identities are dominant. I suspect the former in most cases, but who knows?


The US exec probably doesn't want to order them either. So the game would be played and they did their best. There's another article about the US fighting data sovereignty requirements/laws in other countries, but that relies on their quickly dwindling soft power.

Canadian companies can't use Cloud providers at all then? I'm incredulous about that.

Google, AWS & Microsoft all nullroute the countries of Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Google also nullroutes Crimea.

So by using a cloud provider, you are participating in the embargo of Cuba.


Not sure Canada has the leverage/market to get them to sway here. But a body like the EU has the leverage to force local operation and control.

The employees of the actual subsidiary entity follow the laws of the country they're based in.

GDPR give exemption for foreign government for "national security", "important reasons of public interest" or "law enforcement", whatever that meant.

Yes/no.

China at this point is hard in automation, beyond anything the US has. China is well past the peak of sweatshops.

As someone in the manufacturing space in the US, the biggest issue we have in the US is that manufacturing continues to die. Any manufacturing we have left is the old guard dying off. It comes from a range of issues from companies refusing to invest in younger employees, to the cost of real estate (both buy or rent) for commercial properties being absurd..


Incorrect. To reiterate, the closest near competitor below it does ~30% what the US does; and it only goes down from there. And, compared to China, they are doing 65% of their manufacturing capacity at 25% of their population. The US is doing fine.

The fact that China is diversified beyond low end manufacturing just shows that they have incentive + economic impetus to expand that field; and hardly disproves what I stated or shows any trend of US manufacturing "dying off".


The future is either a regression of society from the resulting riots and massacres when 3/4 of the population is unemployed.

Or perpetual work camps for the masses.


Can you name me another time when humanity has run out of useful work to do?

Was it when we tamed fire, invented the wheel, writing, or double entry bookkeeping? All of which appear more consequential than current AI.

We’ll always have something to do. And humans like doing things.


The claim of the AI true-believers is that this time it will be different because of the "general" nature of it.

Fire can't build a house.

The wheel can't grow crops.

Writing can't set a broken bone.

Double entry bookkeeping can't write a novel.

If you believe that this AI+robotics wave will be able to do anything a human can do with fewer complaints, what would the humans move on to?


Fighting the clankers, of course.

Perhaps you meant writing bad futuristic science fiction on HN rather than building something.

I think it's a foregone conclusion that the clankers are the only ones building something in OP's scenario, leaving nothing left for us meatbags to do but fight the battery bloods and write bad science fiction.

A lot of people are being more or less coerced into doing abjectly useless stuff with their time.

David Graeber did a thing on the topic where he called the subset he was interested in "bullshit jobs".


> Can you name me another time when humanity has run out of useful work to do? > > Was it when we tamed fire, invented the wheel, writing, or double entry bookkeeping? All of which appear more consequential than current AI. > > We’ll always have something to do. And humans like doing things.

History doesn't predict the future. I can't tell you about another time when humans ran out of usefull things to do. What I can tell you is that we humans are biological beings we limited cognitive and physical abiloties.

I can also tell you about another biological being whose cognitive and phyisical abilities were surpassed by technology. Horses. What happened to them then wasn't pretty. The hight of their population in US was in 1915.

And sure, humans like doing things and so do horses, but you can't live by doing things that aren't useful to others, at least not in the current system. If technology surpases our abilities, the only useful things left to do for vast majority of humans is the same thing that was left for horses to do. Entertainment in various forms and there won't be enough of those jobs for all of us.


In the USA, the great depression, that is what "the grapes of wrath" is about. Or in all the dock towns when we shifted to containerized shipping.

(I don't think technological innovation leads to permanent job loss, but some people will lose)


> Can you name me another time when humanity has run out of useful work to do?

Can you name me another time when big swaths of highly paid population were laid off due to redundancy and how did it go for the population?

Also, another hint: I couldn’t care less what is going to happen to “humanity”. “Humanity” isn’t the one who pays my bills and puts food on my table.


> I couldn’t care less what is going to happen to “humanity”.

I would be profoundly ashamed to write such words on any public forum, myself.

However, I fear that probably, most people don't think like me, but feel the way you claim to. :-(


I was in Akihabara in Tokyo and other places end of 2024. Prices were nearly US priced but in Yen more or less. No real bargins. Only thing they had going was unique stuff you can't find at all in the mass market garbage we got going on in the US

Much of the "cheap retro games" from Japan are just the games that were more popular there like Paper Mario 64.

It's hard to really properly track these things but over the three trips I've made to Japan over about 12 years. Id say the price rises have been entirely in line with currency and retrogaming inflation.

I.e. I'm not sure it was every as good value as people thought.

I did buy quite a bit over a decade ago but again those were Japan only carts (that wouldn't even run in PAL without a mod chip but would run NTSC-U).

That said it is so much more touristy now I'm sure any arbitrage opertunity would be sweeped away same evening.

Japan is now also making domestic only console versions (at least for switch 2 and I think with PS5 on the cards).

Again this might lead to people thinking consoles are cheap in Japan but these are Japanese only consoles designed to revive the economic doldrum they are in.


Japan is certainly the place to go for second-hand synthesizers and other music equipment, though. The gear is well taken care of, and usually a fair bit cheaper than local rates.

Fair point! I did see an extraordinary amount of music gear in akihabara and never really processed that information.

And the love and care they treat possessions with as well as the way they package second hand devices is inspiring.

It's kind of odd in a way in contrast to Kintsugi (where repair is highlighted). Almost aiming to keep things in perfect condition but then in a way celebrating repair?


Of for sure, the second hand market in Japan is really very inspirational.

In the 90's I did a trip to Japan for second-hand synth gear and came back with 4x the stuff I'd have had, if I'd only shopped local - and this was in a period where synths (my favourite investment) were lower valued on the market even in the US ..

Japan is a very inspirational nation, I find.


Some things are more costly in the USA. I have a soft spot for the aesthetics of the Fuji Electric Command Switches AR16, AF16. They're like $19+ each in the USA from automationdirect.com. However, in 2024 I found a stall in Akihabara selling Industrial automation stuff including the Fuji switches for 5-10 bucks each. Bought a bunch and made a little demo panel for about 60 bucks. The same items in the USA would have set me back over $150. When I go back I am buying a lot more.

A certain version of JP Zelda Link to the Past is needed for speedrunning and “legally” running randomizers. It was far easier and cheaper to find in Tokyo than online.

Old people are a major voting block that actually show up, nobody will touch their driver licenses.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: